Wikipedia:Peer review/Pop kreatif/archive1

Pop kreatif

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I've listed this article for peer review because... I was inspired by User:North8000 and User:Ca's AfC comments after grading my new article as B. Ca later stating that I can have a chance to aim for GA status. I am considering to do so, but I've got to ask for a peer review first! This article is about Pop Kreatif, otherwise known as Indonesian City Pop. An analogue to Japanese City Pop. I think it's an interesting article to read for GA. What do you think?

Thanks, Kaliper1 (talk) 07:39, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just clarifying, I did the NPP review (passed) and left a compliment when doing so. Someone else did the things mentioned above, probably rightly so. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:02, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dhiosk

OK. Wow... I didn't think an article this exciting can be so overlooked on peer review (in other words, I haven't looked on peer review for so long, haha).

Some comments (more later):

Any refs for the 'Moluccan' part on the stylistic origins?
This is optional - do you think "At the time, president Sukarno had banned all "Ngak-Ngik-Ngok" music" is better worded "At the time, president Sukarno had banned all rock-and-roll music, which he pejoratively called "Ngak-Ngik-Ngok" music"?
On Yockie's name: there are some inconsistencies (there's the old-spelling "Jockie" and the new-spelling "Yockie"). I feel that it's better to make the names uniform under "Yockie" since the mass media usually writes "Yockie" anyway.
Per MOS:CURRENT and MOS:REALTIME, I think it's wise to avoid "recently..." (eg. "Pop kreatif gained popularity among Indonesian youth and has recently seen a resurgence within the Indonesian music scene"). I think it's better to change it to something like "By the late 2010s(?), pop kreatif enjoyed a resurgence within the Indonesian music scene". (Possible phrasing example: see vinyl revival)

I'll give more comments, but here's for now. D (talk?) 14:28, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I put this in due to the numerous named Pop Kreatif-boogie related artists like Harvey, Yopie, Utha, etc. Though, I'll try finding a suitable source.
~~Ah that is better worded, will fix.~~ Done
You'll have to edit the main page for Yockie however, ~~since the en version differs with the indo version by the usage of the old edjaan instead of the new.~~ Done
~~Noted, will fix.~~ Done

Kaliper1 (talk) 22:45, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

More comments (1):

I've noticed something, and this might be a problem if you want to make a GA-level article: many of the article's blue links are links to id-wiki in disguise. We have to consider that this might not be exactly fair towards non-Indonesian speakers. MOS:UNDERLINK advises that "If an article exists on a non-English language Wikipedia but not yet in English, consider a red link that also links to the non-English language article," eg. Dian Permana Poetra [id] (see this) instead of 'hiding' it, eg. Dian Pramana Poetra. This is to signal non-Indonesian speakers that the page isn't in English.
- Consequentially, this will result in a sizable number of red links; I can offer some help in making stub articles to make the links blue.
"Attempts at reviving the pop kreatif genre prior to 2017 were meager..." any refs on 2017 being the turning point?
Take notes of WP:AESTHETIC and especially beware of WP:PEACOCK. Two examples: "Pop kreatif songs often feature intricate instrumental arrangements...." and "The lyrics of pop kreatif songs are often poetic and introspective than those of mainstream pop music....". These are better worded as "Ihsandia Muhammad of Geotimes described pop kreatif as "having intricate and complex instrumental arrangements"" and "Arista Estiningtyas of Tirto.id further mentioned that the genre is notable for its "creative lyrics"" (ps: calling the lyrics "creative" might be redundant to the genre name; I personally think other sources are needed as well). Wikipedia ideally avoids idealization of artistic styles being attributed to Wikipedia itself; to counter this, Wikipedia attributes stylistic descriptions to the writers it refers to. You can see the examples in the "Reception" or "Critical reception" part of many excellent album articles, both FA-level and GA-level.

More later. D (talk?) 08:10, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On it of course!
The rise of pop kreatif is largely attributed to the rise of city pop, I've wrote the explainer on the 21st century revival part (though, is it less obvious? maybe?)
Noted, though to be fair the origins of the name "pop kreatif" is mainly from the lyrics, per bens leo.

Kaliper1 (talk) 10:23, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Kaliper1:

On the city pop attribution: I think it's better to specify the time; even a vague indicator like "in the late 2010s" on the 1st paragraph on the 21st century part is fine.

No problem on the "pop kreatif" terminology; it's the description of the genre in the article's various parts that needs attention.

I want to raise other points, but right now I want to focus helping on adding en.wiki bluelinks to the article. (An addition, though: Didn't Guruh collaborate with Gipsy, instead of forming it?) D (talk?) 02:53, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Dhiosk Fixed. Oops, my mistake, I might've misread my source for said part, as it was in Japanese. I've added another source to reflect the update. Kaliper1 (talk) 08:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some more comments @Kaliper1:

"Guruh Gipsy gained posthumous acclaim for its influence on Indonesia's music scene." - the word 'posthumous' is used after the creator(s) has/have died. However, Guruh and many Gipsy members are still alive and well.
"While some Indonesian artists, primarily from the Indie music scene, such as Mondo Gascaro, Dhira Bongs, Kurosuke, Coldiac, Tokyolite, Ikkubaru, Vintonic, and Spring Summer..." How many of these musicians are actually notable (per WP:MUSICBIO)? I mean, Mondo Gascaro is obviously notable, since he was a part of Sore, whose albums are on several critics' lists. He himself has been nominated for several AMI categories, making soundtracks for FFI-winning movies, etc. But other than him, who else is notable? And what's the basis of their notability? If it doesn't fulfill any of the points in WP:MUSICBIO, I think we can delete any mentions of them.
"Vocalist of Anomalyst music group Christianto Ario Wibowo or better known by his stage name Kurosuke..." Do we have to mention that he's the vocalist of Anomalyst, since the band doesn't do pop kreatif?
Some sources are unreliable (see WP:RELIABILITY) and should be avoided, which are:
- Blogspot/Wordpress sources
  - "Festival Lagu Populer Indonesia era 70an". Aldi Wirya.
  - "Festival Lagu Populer Indonesia era 80an". Aldi Wirya.
  - "30 Tahun Album "Hotel San Vicente" Transs". Denny Sakrie.
  - "Sejarah Penubuhan kumpulan SLAM Yang Anda Tidak Tahu"
- YouTube sources
  - "Indonesia 6 - Fatamorgana | TVRI 1989 (HD Upscale)"
  - "LADY ~ Harvey Malaiholo (WPSF in Tokyo '82 / FLPTN ke-10 ) oriklip 1982"
  - "Sheila Majid - Sinaran | 18th Tokyo Music Festival 1989 (HD Upscale)"

I think these are for now. I'm still focusing on blue-linking, you can always check the updates on my sandbox (adding wikilink for others to see). D (talk?) 04:11, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

~~Ah I was struggling to find a good word for it. I have thought that the word would be fitting since the group no longer existed. Will remove.~~ Done
Noted, I have retained mainly to three artist. Mondo, Kurosuke (due to his contribution to Lagu Baru dari Masa lalu), and Ikkubaru (as their popularity in japan is much more noted than in Indonesia.) Done
~~Noted, will fix~~ Done
I too was sceptical in trying to put blogspot on WordPress sources on this article. ~~But was relented due to the limited amount of sources available. As for the YT sources, it will be removed.~~ Done, somehow managed to replace with better sources.

Kaliper1 (talk) 10:18, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Skim by Tarlby

Just skimming a few paragraphs without much depth. Tarlby ^{(t) (c)} 17:12, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Initially the genre had been... Add a comma
...economic growth of Indonesia... ---> ...economic growth of Indonesia ... Per EGG
...and has recently seen a resurgence within the Indonesian music scene. Recently? Give me something more exact.
Pop kreatif can be described as "fashionable, urban pop supported by the upper-middle class of cities." By who?
You linked Western culture the second time rather than the first

Done, thanks for the input! Kaliper1 (talk) 10:15, 15 April 2025 (UTC) scug[reply]